User talk:Cococrash11

Welcome
Hi, welcome to D.GrayMan Encyclopedia! Thanks for your edit to the Hevlaska page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Nick D Wolfwood (Talk) 02:21, December 15, 2010

Heart of Innocence page
Hello, Cococrash11~. I'm .Seshat., a fellow D.Gray-Man wikia editor, and I'm just here to ask one thing... Please do not copypatse information from one page and then make a new page to post said copypasted there. We do not have nearly enough information on the Heart for it to have it's own page; having the information on just the Innocence page is enough for now, and just taking information from one page and putting it on an otherwise completely blank one is nothing short of redundant.

Just so you are aware, I will be messaging an admin and asking that the page be deleted. T.T Please do not take this as a personal attack... I've just been doing quite a bit of cleanup lately, and I'm afraid that the page you added meets the criterion of pages that should be deleted. .Seshat. 05:38, February 19, 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't the one who made the decision to give specific Innocence their own pages; that was the work of an admin, and it's not something I entirely agree with... But for the sake of my defense, we have much more information on Allen's Innocence, all of which can be referenced, and what's more we have pictures and statistics. The Heart has only ever been mentioned in passing on most accounts, and explained in a handful of panels. It's too ambiguous; I'm sure in the coming chapters we'll get more information (with the appearance of Apocryphos and all that), but for now there's no reason it should have it's own page. .Seshat.

God page
Again, we have absolutely nothing to put on that page. No pictures, no content, no references, no character biography... I mean, if we're going to include God, we'll have to do Satan, the Anti-Christ, Raphael, Gabriel, Metatron... the entire pantheon of Heaven, not to mention Adam, Eve, and all of the other people from the Bible. You can't make a character page for a character who is never introduced. Yes, He's mentioned, but He's always mentioned in stories that involve Catholicism. You can't do a story that includes Catholicism and not have Him in it, but that doesn't necessarily make Him an integral character.

And we can't just slap in information about the real world concept of God, because look at what Hoshino's done to Noah. She's turned him into a villain, when the Bible clearly labels him as a savior. And after that, trust me, it's highly unlikely she'll have God make an appearance. Very, very few mangaka who use Catholicism in their stories do. And even if she does, He probably won't even have a face, and it won't happen for a while. Until it does happen, which it probably won't, there's no way the God page can progress.

(droops) I'm sorry... I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to express my point. .Seshat. 01:51, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

If you'll notice, spatters of Noah are mentioned all over the Noah Family page, but Noah, himself, doesn't have his own page because there's not enough information about him to make a page for. All he needs is the space he's taken up on the Noah Family page, nothing more, nothing less. Because he's been dead for seven thousand years. Whatever spat he had with God holds little relevance with the main story; God has had spats with lots of people over the years, some simply because He's God.

And God is mentioned where He should be; on the Innocence page, on the Black Order page (I think... at least, He should be, somewhere...), on pages related to him directly... He's not exactly a key element, but He's definitely an omnipresent one (irony? XP).

And making a page, just to link it to the Wikipedia article? A waste of space. People know who God is, and if they don't, we can put a link to the article on a preexisting page; one that has content.

God and His dispute with Noah are explained on several pages already; we don't need a new page to reiterate it.

Another example of a character page we could but won't make (yet) would be a page for the Pope. He's mentioned several times. We know he's there (if he wasn't, who'd run the Vatican?). He's important, too; I mean, he's the Pope! But we don't have a page for him. Because we don't have enough information.

In literary analysis, they're called "unseen characters"; they're often continuing characters who influence the world a story is set in without ever actually doing something the audience can observe for themselves. They're important to the events, yes, but not necessarily as individuals. .Seshat. 02:59, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Character Template Race
That's something you'd need to take up with ProGamerP9; I don't do template designs. I've tried my hand at it, but failed. Miserably. ProGamer is the one who made the newest versions of the templates we're using; I agree that race is something that should be added to the templates, regardless of which character they're for, but he/she's the one who would make the adjustments to the template pages. .Seshat. 08:14, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Mayor George
The reason I deleted the Mayor George page is because you put it up and put absolutely nothing in it. It's rude to put up a blank page and expect others to fill it for you; you should, at the very least, standardize it to have what all other character pages have: Appearance, Personality, History, Plot, Trivia and Reference sections, as well as a character info template. As a contributor, you assume the responsibility of being courteous to those who are going to contribute to the page after you and give them something other than a blank page to work with. Other contributors do not exist to clean up after the messes you make; we have enough on our plates as it is to clean up messy pages that have been set up correctly. .Seshat. 00:21, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, let me put it this way... You're making blank pages and putting nothing in them. You title them correctly (for the most part) and you might add a few categories... But that's it. You don't put in any links or images, you don't put them on the List of Characters page, you don't go through the trouble of going through other character pages and linking them to the blank page you make so people know it's there; you leave it there and wait for someone else to do something you're... I don't know... too lazy to do? Incapable of doing? Whatever reason have you.

So, the page sits there. Incomplete. And no one knows if it because you didn't go to the lengths to fill it out properly so people could find it. To use your question, where is the logic in that?

If you don't have the ability to do something, but you try to do it anyway, you leave a mess that someone else has to clean up. What you're doing isn't trial an error; they're consistently bad edits.

If you can't correctly fill out a new page you've made, then don't make the page.

It's not as if your fellow editors don't have other things they could be doing; I have a job! I have a family I take care of! If you make a page while I'm away and I don't discover it when I get back, what do you think happens to that page if it's not done correctly? Nothing! It'll get forgotten! And when someone who can do a page right comes along, doesn't find the page, and then tires to make one, then what happens? Then we have duplicate pages left and right, and things get messy.

Again, when you make a page, you assume the responsibility of giving those who will edit it after you something to work with! Doing otherwise is just irresponsible, and it makes you a problem editor; someone who's not necessarily doing bad things out of maliciousness, but is still doing bad things.

And I'm not the only one who feels this way; ask an admin at the Bleach wiki, or the Assassin's Creed wiki. They'll probably give you the same answer.

If you want to make a page... Why don't you try asking for help instead of just doing it an expecting others to hold your hand and clean up after you? After all, this is a community; being part of a community is a two-way street. Be polite, and you'll get polite in return. Make a mess, and we'll clean up after you by deleting the mess. Ask for help and you'll get it. If you do bad things habitually, however, after being asked to stopped, you'll find yourself ejected from the community. If you haven't noticed, we aren't exactly a sizable group like some wikis; we can't afford to let a few bad edits slip through, or the work we did cleaning this place up to begin with will have been for naught.

Re: Sypnosis
As for your plot to synopsis question, this wiki still isn't completely standardized; there are probably plenty of pages that have synopsis when it should be plot. If you find them, feel free to change them from synopsis to plot, not from plot to synopsis, because it should be plot. .Seshat. 01:36, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Setting
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by setting, but you don't need to make new templates: ProGamer made us templates to Black Order characters, Akuma, Noah Family characters, and human characters.

Here's what I do when I make a new character page: I go to the character page of a character who is like the person I'm going to make a page for, like Moor Hesse is a regular, human character like George is. I click edit on that character's page, I highlight the widget for the character's infobox, I copy it, I go over to the new character page I'm about to make, and I paste it (not 'Paste and match style', that won't work). Now you have the appropriate character infobox for that page! Then all you have to do is drag your mouse over the green widget icon, and it will bring up the details of that infobox, right? And you edit it to replace all of the information that was for the previous character to the information of the character you're making a page for. If you can't find a picture, leave it blank.

After the infobox is complete, make the following Heading 2 categories:

Appearance

Personality

History

Plot

Trivia

References

Fill in what you can, even if you can't spell the words right or your grammar sucks. Trust me, everyone here misspells words and most people who contribute here have terrible grammar. Just do simple sentences; that should make it easier.

Filling out the appearance should be easy, personality is a little tricky because it's a tad subjective, but again, it's not rocket science.

For plot, if you aren't comfortable on expanding on it, then just put a basic but semi-thorough summary; don't just say "He's a guy so-and-so met in chapter x." I can't begin to tell explain to you just how many things are wrong with the structure of that kind of sentencing, alone.

When you've done what you can, put the character on the List of Characters page where they belong (in George's place, he'd go under 'Other').

Yes, it's tedious. Yes, it takes time. But, as you've seen, doing things sloppily will result in your edits getting undone and deleted. Besides, after you've done it several times, it does get easier... .Seshat. 02:13, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Character Template
I'm not entirely sure, but it might be because you were trying to use a template type we don't use anymore.. I put the template that we're using for regular characters on George's page; see if that works. .Seshat. 02:24, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Template:Charbox, though I don't know how long it's going to stay like that... I'm going to ask one of the other admins to make a few adjustments to it; its current design isn't exactly as clean as the ones for Black Order and Noah Family members. .Seshat. 02:31, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

(sighs) I know. I asked ProGamerP9 to redo the template, and they stopped partway through it last night. You might try reminding them to finish it... .Seshat. 19:15, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

I can't design templates; it's not because ProGamer has any sort of block on the template pages, I just don't have the necessary skills. .Seshat. 19:37, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

ProGamer tried to teach me, but designing templates is eons more difficult than setting up a character page properly. If setting up a character page were to be compared to addition and subtraction, then template design would be calculus. It's something that's just too hard to be explained through messages; I would need someone to physically be here with me to show me how, and I don't have anyone who can teach me. .Seshat. 19:45, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Roseanne
Yoshi has a page because he appears in several volumes, in several mediums (and in several of Hoshino's other works), and his existence is more relevant than Roseanne's. Besides, unlike Roseanne, Yoshi is... sort of like Hoshino's mascot; he's far more personal to her than Roseanne was. Roseanne was just a comedy bit/a means for Arystar to get his Innocence. The plant should (and is) mentioned where it should be, but it doesn't deserve its own page. .Seshat. 19:52, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

It goes on Arystar Krory's page, under History. .Seshat. 20:05, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

What about both I and III? It should include the pictures and in Allen since he had a flashback with it. --Cococrash11 20:07, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Real Life
You've been making a lot of pages lately that aren't really getting filled. Shouldn't you focus more on working with what you've done rather than just continuing to build with nothing? That seems stupid to me.

A project for Omakes hasn't been started yet; Hoshino's article would be the only one to fall under the Real Life category, so it's a useless category. Think about what you do before you do it. We have dozens of gaps and holes in this wikia already; we should work to fill those before we start any other major projects, because that is what an Omake section would be. It wouldn't be just a section on a pre-existing article, it would be its own page. A page that you won't fill, and that I frankly don't have time to work on right now.

If you really want to help this wiki so much, why don't you work on references? We're seriously lacking them, and while I love to do references, I don't seem to have enough time to do them because I get busy cleaning up other things around her or at my own workplace. You're starting on another counterproductive streak already, and the time I could be spending fleshing out the empty articles you've made is being used, instead, to defend my actions when I'm trying to stop you from making a mess. .Seshat. 20:26, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Why are you under the impression that no one will do it? Just because it hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it won't get done; we are just too busy working on getting everything else in order to start a project like that. The after chapter specials are printed in the manga; they're not going anywhere, and someone will get to it eventually. I've considered doing it, but I was too busy at the time with other things and I knew that if I started it, it would get pushed aside. Do you understand what I'm saying? Starting up several dozen projects when we aren't even completely sorted out on what character boxes to use on different pages is idiotic. You seem to think this site is more together and that we have more people working to clean it up than it seems, but it's really not like that. The manga isn't going anywhere, but this wiki is constantly being updated. It's an ongoing chore to keep things organized, and if we start adding more things to our plates, we'll never catch up. .Seshat. 20:46, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Method
If you'd notice, when you first started editing here I sincerely tried to be civil with you, but you argue every point I make with questions I had already attempted to answer. You keep making the same mistakes, and after having to spend two hours today, alone, trying to explain to you why they're mistakes, you still don't seem to get it, and, I will admit, it is starting to grate on my nerves a bit. I'm not trying to be harsh with you; trust me, if I were, I could be a lot worse(I'm the oldest of nine siblings, I know what's harsh and what isn't), but I'm not going to, because you're not a malicious editor.

If you don't want me to get short with you, then please try reading the rules, first, or even going my my userpage to see a list of things that you should or shouldn't be doing.

If I seem harsh, it's because I expect more from you than I would new editors, and I am not going to keep being soft on you if you insistently make the same mistakes after being asked, repeatedly, not to. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

No, the creation of new pages is not a bad thing, but the creation of new pages that you leave blank with the expectation that someone will fill them in for you is, and I'm not going to change my stance on that.

Now, I have to go to work. If you try to message me again and don't hear from me for a few hours, I'm not ignoring you. I'm just not in front of a computer. .Seshat. 22:35, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

We're not going to keep arguing about this; you may be the admin of another wiki, but you are not an admin here, and you do not make the rules here. The rules that work here have either been laid out by admins before me, or are a direct reflection of how other, more experienced admins choose to run their wikis, and they are rules I agree with. I am only upholding them.

As a contributor, you are expected to follow these rules, as well. If an admin asks you not to do something and you are not able to convince them that what you are doing is okay, you will kindly stop, as you would expect other contributors of your other wikis to do if you asked them to.

The D.Gray-man wiki is free to have rules different from other wikis you contribute to, and the admins are the ones who make the rules so that things can remain orderly.

Until things get more organized around here, I do not think making an Omake page or anything like an Omake page is a good idea; we're having enough problems as it is just trying to sort out character templates.

Making blank pages here is not okay. If you start a page, please put something in it, use the appropriate character box (Black Order boxes for Black Order members, Akuma boxes for Akuma characters, Noah Family boxes for Noah Family characters, and regular character boxes for any other characters) and character page layout, and do not add unnecessary categories, and do not copypaste information from existing articles.

If you do not know how to do something, then do not try to do it by yourself; ask myself or another admin.

Also, please keep in mind that when you talk to someone on their talk page, they might not be there at the time, and flooding their talk page with messages is not going to make them come back any faster. Feel free to take your time to type out whatever message you want, but leaving message after message with two minutes in between each message makes it very difficult to answer your questions, especially if the person you are messaging is in the middle of trying to type you an answer.

Your contributions are always welcome, but if you start to cause problems, I will have to ask you to stop again, and if you persist, I may have to ban you. It is not something I want to do, but for the integrity of the D.Gray-man wiki, I will. As an admin, yourself, surely you must understand my sentiments.

I have been asked by other admins to keep an eye on this wiki, and I plan to. Now, if you don't mind, this discussion is closed. .Seshat. 04:33, March 20, 2011 (UTC)